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Author Topic: Request for next UP Update/Patch:  (Read 41789 times)

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Offline El_Marta

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Re: Request for next UP Update/Patch:
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2010, 09:20:56 PM »
Bring back working F 190 Mistel and Stock skin change behaviour for Blenheims, Beaufighters aso

Offline JG54_Emil

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Re: Request for next UP Update/Patch:
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2010, 11:01:53 PM »
Bring back working F 190 Mistel and Stock skin change behaviour for Blenheims, Beaufighters aso

I hope you don´t mean the Beaufighter behaviour that makes it outurn Spitfires.
JG54 is recruiting!
Check our Website:
www.IIJG54Gruenherz.org
www.Gruenherzjaeger.de

Offline WB_Torgear

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Re: Request for next UP Update/Patch:
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2010, 11:25:08 PM »
mid air refuleing?????

Offline GilB57

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Re: Request for next UP Update/Patch:
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2010, 10:27:55 AM »
I would add:

-GW spring central Mediterranean (this one is mine ;) )

Reworks :

-default skins for some planes REALLY need to be more generic (no overlord bands for Beaufighters, Tempests, little errors for Typhoons, etc  )

....I have some if you want ;)


EDIT :  ...and also the RAF markings fixes explained here :
http://ultrapack.il2war.com/index.php/topic,2804.0.html

Offline StG77_HaDeS

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Re: Request for next UP Update/Patch:
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2010, 10:32:47 AM »
I would add:

-GW spring central Mediterranean (this one is mine ;) )

Reworks :

-default skins for some planes REALLY need to be more generic (no overlord bands for Beaufighters, Tempests, little errors for Typhoons, etc  )

....I have some if you want ;)

Why not? Send them please :)
:drinks:

Offline GilB57

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Re: Request for next UP Update/Patch:
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2010, 11:24:12 PM »
Okay !

do you prefer as .bmp (paintschemes) ?
...or as tga/tgb (default skins folders) > a lot bigger packages ?

Offline nick10

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Re: Request for next UP Update/Patch:
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2010, 06:35:50 AM »
please consider adding:

the F4U-4 with new 3d cowling and air intake (they are beautiful)

the F4U-5

freddy's P-51 and P-47 pits

freddy's f-86 pit.

Offline ITAF_UgoRipley

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Re: Request for next UP Update/Patch:
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2010, 11:43:50 PM »
Hi gentlemen.

A simple request: is there already a mod that saves all the online chat in a logfile (incoming/outgoing)?
Thanks.

Offline _AUS_Salmo

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Re: Request for next UP Update/Patch:
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2010, 01:12:18 AM »
Please, please include the Reduced Airfield Influence Radius Mod, not as a jgsme option, but as a built-in standard for the game http://allaircraftsimulations.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=11311&hilit=airfield+effect

Offline Docholiday

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Re: Request for next UP Update/Patch:
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2010, 11:33:34 AM »
Please include the whole set of Bf-109  (with all these fine prewar B,C,D) in the next Ultrapack  !!

And of course Ranvers beautyful Blenheim Mk.IV Cockpit !


that would be fine   :D

Thank You for Your work

Doc


PS: Newy (of the wedge tail eagles)  is building a Bristol Blenheim IVF  (SAS WIP  http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,8158.msg85286.html#msg85286). It would be super if she could be implemented in the nex UP too !
Fighter Pilots make movies, bomber pilots make history !

Offline Rusa

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Re: Request for next UP Update/Patch:
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2010, 01:59:04 PM »
Thank you for the news about the update!

Here are several points I would like to be improved.

- The main is AI behaviour.
High-speed AI-planes being chased by low-speed planes are used to commence sharp turns 

instead of continuing accelerating on just slightly curving trajectory (and diving at high

altitudes).
So for example a slow piston-engined AI-plane could easily defeat a jet one, especially at low

altitudes.
That's why it would be nice to add a logic that if distance between planes is increased then a

plane doesnot go into sharp turn or something like this.
In my opinion currently it is one of the main shortcomings of AI which should be improved.
 
- F9f2 Panther is a little bit overmodelled. For example according to
http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/hist-ac/f9f.pdf
its ROC at sea level (SL) was 30m/s and maximum speed 500 knots (926km/h) attained at SL.
By the way it would be nice to check the data for F-80C too.

It is interesting that Mig-15 is overmodelled in some aspects too! There is a declassified

techical manual for Mig-15bis (in Russian) which can be downloaded from here:

http://1.airwar.z8.ru/bibl/mig15bis_to.zip
According to it ROC for Mig-15bis was 50m/s at SL , 41.5m/s at 3km altitude, 32.4m/s at

6km, 23.7m/s at 9km, 10.1m/s at 13km.
(just for reference: at 1km altitude best turn time is 20.7s at full thrust and speed 480km/h

(radius (R) =460m); at H=5km the time is 34s (R=710m), at H=10km the time is 63.7s

(R=1630m).)

Data on Mig-17 is in a declassified techical manual (in Russian) which be be downloaded from

here: http://www.airwar.ru/other/bibl/mig17to.zip
According to the manual the Mig-17's ROC and turn rate was almost the same as Mig-15bis.

Data on MIG-17f and some other Mig-17 versions with an afterburner
can be obtained in this on-line Mig-17 manual 

(http://www.aviation.ru/Leonid.Mehanikov/MiG-17_Flight_Manual/contents.htm ).
For Mig-17f (table 13 at

http://www.aviation.ru/Leonid.Mehanikov/MiG-17_Flight_Manual/chapt11.htm )
ROC was (WITHOUT afterburner) at H=1km  39.6m/s; at 3km  -  33.9m/s; at 6km - 26.2m/s;
at 9km - 18.4m/s; at 13km - 7.0m/s.
And for Mig-17 with afterburner: at 3km - 75.8m/s; at 6km - 59.7m/s; at 9km - 43.8m/s; at

13km - 22.5m/s. Without afterburner the best ROC was attained at speed ~750km/h, while

with afterburner at speed ~1000km/h.

I have no info on the early Mig-15 (with RD-45f engine), but top Soviet ace Pepelyaev wrote

that it loses to Sabre both in horizontal and vertical maneuverability. By the way
early MIG-15 in Korea had a little if any armour protection for pilots.

(http://www.dorogavnebo.ru/st/st.php?n=001&s=1).
In general Soviet pilots fighting in Korea considers that Mig-15bis in better above 8km

altitude ( http://mobile.iremember.ru/index.php?task=topic&id=459 ).

A Commander-in-chief of the Soviet air-defence, Savitskii at least 2 times (in 1952 and 1953)

appealed to the Soviet leadership pointing that Mig-15 (based on the Korean experience which

Savitskii carefully studied including his visits to fighting aerodromes) cannot effectively fight

against F-80 and F-84 at low heights; and Mig is worse than F-86a and F-86e in

maneuverability at low and medium heights. He proposed to design a new fighter for such

heights. And Soviet leadership decided to produce a copy of F-86a! The Sukhoi bureau (yes,

Su-27!...) was restored especially for this purpose, but soon afterwards Stalin dies, there were

political and organizational perturbations, and of course new supersonic-age has come...

But some devices from F-86 were used. For example Pepelyaev complained on Mig's artificial

horizon, which at roll above 30 degrees could "fall". Pepelyaev saw the better Soviet version

just in 1954 which was like Sabre's one.
I hope this technical info could be of some help.

By the way, in the game Mig-15 is better than F-86 at low heights also due to its better

AI-behavour. For example AI-Mig can shot down low-flying enemy airplanes, while AI-Sabre

cannot.

Regarding accuracy of shooting. It looks like small-caliber bomber gunners (in average)

should be more accurate at short distances at least, because it is easily to man light gun than a

large and heavy one. Moreover strong recoil of a large gun also should harm accuracy.

I think that Il-10 gunner shoots extremely accurate taking account its poor ergonomics, and

plane pilotage. I can add that the Il-10 pilot also shoots extremely accurate ( for example one veteran recalls, that exhaust gases filled the cabin, so crew have to cover faces with wet rags sometimes).

And in the game the U-2vs's  machine-gun seems to fire "12mm" instead of "7mm".
 

Hoping to see the update soon!

Offline centauro

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Re: Request for next UP Update/Patch:
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2010, 05:46:04 PM »
I agree with what others have written.

I want to see in the next UP: new maps of Spain and the true marks of the Republic of Spain:



 :drinks: Thx

Offline Rusa

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Re: Request for next UP Update/Patch:
« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2010, 02:23:19 PM »
I discover some data on the early Mig-15 (with RD-45f engine).
Maximum speed ~1040 km/h at the sea level (SL); ~1020 km/h at 5km altitude;  ~972km/h at 10km.
ROC: 40m/s at SL; ~27m/s at 5km; ~15m/s at 10km.

Hoping that it could be useful.

Offline NNFFLYLB

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Re: Request for next UP Update/Patch:
« Reply #33 on: October 24, 2010, 09:10:24 PM »
I would like see the gorgeous P-38's cockpit by JAMF
http://allaircraftsimulations.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=16375





and the P47D-30 and D-40 by kumpel http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,8622.0.html



the Reduced Airfield Radius Mod in the Jsgme
and the latest CY6_North_korea map version http://www.filefront.com/16419469/CY6_North_Korea.rar

  :drinks:

EDIT: if it is possible to add some uncommuns aircrafts like F-84F thunderstreak and the KB-29/F-84G3 it will be fine  :tender:

Offline Stratodog

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Re: Request for next UP Update/Patch:
« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2010, 04:49:22 PM »
please consider adding:

the F4U-4 with new 3d cowling and air intake (they are beautiful)

the F4U-5

freddy's P-51 and P-47 pits

freddy's f-86 pit.


I would second all of these and add the Rabaul beta map found here: http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,8901.0.html
Yes, It's only a beta, but it's problems are minor and more importantly, it's the only Rabaul map currently available.   :)

Offline Gryphon

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Re: Request for next UP Update/Patch:
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2010, 01:01:04 AM »
Nothing does more to stimulate the popularity of the online game than a regular supply of new, quality maps. I dont know if any are available, but any maps of the Holland - Belgium - North Germany area suitably detailed for low level flight would be very welcome. Once we get beyond Normandy, it gets hard for ETO mapmakers.

I know we have Ash Battle of France, but there are so many bugs with the bases it's hard to use. NW Europe also has strange issues that cause stutters.


Offline dpbmh

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Re: Request for next UP Update/Patch:
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2010, 09:53:10 PM »
Basically what is available! Not sure if listed above, but the P35 and latest P26 would be nice. I like the pre-war Bf109s, He51, He45 and Ju52 bomber as well.

Offline Rusa

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Re: Request for next UP Update/Patch:
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2010, 04:45:24 AM »
Here I would like to add some more info on MIGs I read in the references I gave early (
http://ultrapack.il2war.com/index.php/topic,2840.30.html ), and some other sources.

There were several peculiarities in steering of Mig-15bis at high speed. See the links in my

post (
http://ultrapack.il2war.com/index.php/topic,2840.msg29404.html?PHPSESSID=kg3r4if2fria7

nj6sjgjvnkut1#msg29404 ).
1) So called "valezhka" - uncontrol airplane's roll (it even can put an airplane on its back with

the follow-up consequences) which in extreme cases can't be eleminated by a "stick".  (The

early production Mig-15 had the start of the valezhka at  ~ 970 km/h, and some airplanes even

at 850-950 km/h - see below).

Numeral attempts to eleminate the valezhka by modifications of the airplane took place but

they just partly succeed. The late-production MIG-15bis had the following speed limitations to

avoid the valezhka:
V=1070km/h indicated speed) for H<0.9km; 
M=0.92 (M=Mach number) for 0.9km<H<5km; M=0.96 for 5km<H<7.5km; M=1.0 for

H>7.5km
Beyond these limits the airplane was affected by the valezhka which could be fatal.

2) The reverse reaction on rudder's pedalling at M=0.86-0.95 .
This means that if a pilot press (for example) a rudder's pedal to steer his MIG to the right,

then the plane rolls to the left. At M>0.95 the reaction returns to normal.

In general the plane's reaction on steering was very weak at high-speed, so a pilot must apply

strong force to a "stick" to steer his arcraft. For example aileron's efficiency quickly

degrades at M>0.92 and becomes very low at M~0.96-0.98.

Mig-15bis had some moderate oscillations at speed 720-750km/h.

Also at M>0.92 a pilot feels some moderate airplane's vibration. 

According to the Soviet pilot's log during the war in Korea at speed 1050-1100km/h Mig is

poorly streered and unstable which makes aiming and firing cannons difficalt.

Its gun sight ASP-3N gave erroneous lead angle for target's speed more than 600km/h (and

aspect angles >2/4), and for target's speed more than 800km/h (and aspect angles >1/4). Also

during intensive maneuvering its mesh sight leaves the field of view or "dissolves", which

makes aiming impossible (in the November 1952 Migs based in Korea began to get a modified

gun sight ASP-3NM. Its mesh sight didn't leave the field of view and didn't "dissolve").
As mentioned before Mig's artificial horizon AGK-47B gave wrong reading (it "fell") at roll

more than 30 degrees.


Some peculiarities of steering an early Mig-15 (with RD-45f engine) at high speed:
1) At M > 0.91  an airplane pitches up strongly.
2) The valezhka commences at M~0.88 at H<3km, and M~0.92 at H>10km.
3) At 0.87<M<0.95 there is the reverse reaction on rudder's pedalling (similar to Mig-15bis).
4) At M~0.9 efficiency of aileron degrades and becomes zero at M~0.93-0.95.
At  1>M>0.95 the aileron action is reverse - i.e. for example if a right aileron went down, then

the airplane rolls to the right (and not to the left, as normal).


Now about Mig-17.

The first production Mig-17 rolled out in 1952 (the Soviet production ended in 1955).
Number of produced Mig-17 in the Soviet Union is 5497.

Its high- speed steering was better than of Mig-15bis.
Nevertheless at M>0.86 Mig-17 became "heavy" - it was hard to steer it.

Fortunately the  reverse reaction on rudder's pedalling (which Mig-15 was affected - see

above) was absent in Mig-17.


Regarding Mig-17 flight data I can say that sometimes it can vary a little from source to

source. I admit that it could be from Mig-17 long life and various minor modifications.

For Mig-17  maximum allowed speed:
 altitude H< 3 km  -- 1060 km/h (indicated)
3 km < H  < 7 km  - 1200 km/h (TAS)
7 km < H  - no limits

The valezhka during recovery from diving at H=5km commences at 950-960km/h (indicated

speed). High G (overloads) increased the valezhka.

In practice Mig-17 can attain its maximum speed just above H~7-8 km due to strong

pitching-up at lower altitudes. The pitching-up started at M~0.93.
Mig-17 (as well as Mig-15bis ) had some moderate oscillations at speed 720-750km/h

(indicated).

According to a Soviet Mig's ace Zabelin Mig-17 had a large drop of altitude ("kilometers")

while recovering from diving. (http://www.airforce.ru/history/cold_war/zabelin/chapter5.htm )


According to the 1972 flight manual the best turning time (seconds) for Mig-17 at various

altitudes:
0km - 20;
2km - 25;
4km - 31;
6km - 39;
8km - 49;
10km - 63;
12km - 79;

and from the same manual its ROC is
H=1km - ROC=41m/s; H=2km ROC=38.5m/s; H=4km ROC=33m/s; H=6km ROC=27.5m/s;
H=8km ROC=22m/s; H=10km ROC=16.5 m/s; H=12km ROC=11km; H=14km ROC=3.5m/s

But other sources give other ROC (see below).
For example according to the 1971 manual ROC (m/s):
0km - 50
1km - 47
2km -44
3km -41
4km -38
5km - 35
6km -32
7km -29
8km -26
9km - 23
10km - 20
11km -17
12km -13.4
13km -9.7
14km - 6.2
15km -2.6

From another source for Mig-17 and its derivatives:
ROC (H=0km):
MIG-17 - 35
MIG-17F - 65
MIG-17PF - 55

ROC H= 5km:
MIG-17 - 35
MIG-17F - 65
MIG-17PF - 55

I admit that ROC for Mig-17 at H=0km (35m/s) is a mistype.
Indeed from the 1955 manual
http://www.aviation.ru/Leonid.Mehanikov/MiG-17_Flight_Manual/addend.htm
ROC for MIG-17 - MIG-17P
H =1km - 47.0m/s - 36.7m/s
5km - 35.0 -27.0
10km - 20.0- 15.0

It seems that the proper way for ROC data would be to accept average between the 1971 and

1972 documents, i.e. for example ROC (at H=1km) = (41+47)/2=44m/s, etc.

Accuracy (dispersion) of fire from 23mm cannons was worse (apparently comparing with

Mig-15) - (improved later?).




MIG-17f

The first production Mig-17f (and Mig-17pf) rolled out in 1954. Number of Mig-17f  produced

in the Soviet Union was 1702.

Maximum allowed speed of Mig-17f and Mig-17PF was limited to 1060km/h (indicated)

(H<3km), 1150km/h (TAS)(3km<H<7km), and 1100 km/h (TAS)(H>7km)

Maximum speed and ROC (75.8m/s) of Mig-17f with afterburner was attained at H~3km.
(see more info in the Mig-17f ROC given early).

Some info on loaded weight:
Mig-17 - 5340kg;
Mig-17f - 5354kg;
Mig-17pf - 5620kg;

MiG-17PF ROC
(from http://www.aviation.ru/Leonid.Mehanikov/MiG-17_Flight_Manual/chapt11.htm ,
table 14)
H(km) - TAS with afterburner (AB) turned off (km/h) - ROC (m/s) -(TAS afterburner ON -

ROC)

0km - 780km/h -33.8m/s - (990km/h - ?m/s)
1 -780 -31.8 - (990 -?)
2 - 780 -29.8 - (990 -?)
3 - 780 -27.8 - (990 -?)
4 - 780 - 25.8 - (990 - 59.5)
5 - 780 - 23.8 - (990 - 55.0)
6 - 780 - 21.8 - (990 - 50.5)
7 -780 -19.8 - (990-46.0)
....
10 - 780 - 13.7 - (990 -32.3)
...
14 - 780 - 1.6 - (920 -11.1 )

Another source gives Mig-17PF (with AB) ROC =55m/s at sea level.

The best turning for MIG-17f and MiG-17PF for altitude 10km:
MIG-17f: 64.4 s (54.2 with an afterburner(AB))
MIG-17PF: 85s (radius 2850m, speed 440km/h), and 62s with AB (r=2050m,speed 450km/h)

Some words about the afterburner (AB). Duration of its start-up time (after its switch is

"ON") is  3-5s, then full thrust achieved for <~ 6s. When the AB is starting a pilot hear a
clap, and its work is accompanied by a weak "boiling" sound. Maximum allowed duration of

continuous work  is no more than 3 min below 7km, and 10 min above 7km. Next AB's turn-on
is allowed after cooling no less than for 3 minutes.

I hope that I did not mistype in the data. Anyway there is a lot of data for an accurate FM
in the documents (see ref. in  (

http://ultrapack.il2war.com/index.php/topic,2840.msg29404.html?PHPSESSID=kg3r4if2fria7

nj6sjgjvnkut1#msg29404 ).
 

Offline WB_Torgear

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Re: Request for next UP Update/Patch:
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2010, 11:24:25 PM »
would you be nice enough to look at the me 190 a5 torpedo fighter?  the torpedo is in the propeller when you are flying or the engine is on, when you are on the ground engine off you cant really tll there is anything wrong, but when the engine is going you can see the propeller is running just ever so slightly behind the tip of the torpedo, in real life wouldnt that make a BOOM!!!? i always thought it would, but if you could see if that could at all be fixed, its not realistic.nor historical

Offline Poltava

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Re: Request for next UP Update/Patch:
« Reply #39 on: December 27, 2010, 04:59:35 PM »
A very, very, VERY welcome addition to the next version of Ultrapack (for 4.10) would be the Unified Objects Pack that Boomer is trying to put together over at SAS:

http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,12257.0.html

The pack isn't 100% yet, but knowing Boomer it will. Such a pack could form an excellent basis for map modding, and could also relieve us from a lot of those "object missing"-hassles that has plagued the installing of new maps this far.

 :drinks:


 

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